Hillary Clinton to Bush What Did You Know and When Did You Know It
'This Calendar week' Transcript: Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush
— -- THIS IS A Rush TRANSCRIPT FOR "THIS WEEK" ON DECEMBER half dozen, 2015 and information technology will be updated.
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ANNOUNCER: Starting right now, a special edition of THIS WEEK, human action of terrorism in the homeland -- the brand new details nigh the killer couple who may accept been inspired by ISIS, as stunning revelations emerge nigh the parents turned cold-blooded terrorists. The new indications she could take masterminded the massacre.
With the country shocked by the deadliest terror attack in America since nine/11, how practice we keep the homeland safe?
This morning, Hillary and Jeb here alive, taking on that critical question.
Plus, are tougher gun laws needed?
And is it time for boots on the basis to take on ISIS?
Clinton and Bush right now, exclusively on THIS Calendar week from ABC News, a special edition of THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS begins now.
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GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: Proficient morning.
As we come on the air, ISIS has at present claimed that the massacre in California this week, the deadliest terror attacks hither since nine/11 was carried out by soldiers of its caliphate.
President Obama will speak to the nation from the Oval Office tonight.
With the latest on the investigation and what he'll do to defeat ISIS and keep America safe. And we have consummate coverage here this morning -- sectional interviews with Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush-league.
Senior justice correspondent Pierre Thomas starts us off -- good morning, Pierre.
PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS Contributor: Good morn, George.
The FBI investigation involving hundreds of agents is at full tilt, every bit the law enforcement and intelligence community wrestles with a new, unpredictable phase, where a potentially deadly homegrown terror threat is growing.
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THOMAS (voice-over): The moment urgent j the president of the United States huddled with his meridian national security advisers in the wake of the San Bernardino massacre.
While the FBI and White Firm are not still set to officially say the set on was inspired past ISIS, that is a growing concern after we learned the female person fellow member of the killer couple swore allegiance to the leader of ISIS.
ISIS, meanwhile, seizing the moment, calling the killers supporters.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ISIL and other terrorist groups are actively encouraging people effectually the world and in our state to commit terrible acts of violence.
THOMAS: This morning, the race is on to find out more than about the plot. The FBI continues to try to exploit phones and computers left backside past the suspects, even though they took neat efforts to try to destroy bear witness.
Family, friends and associates being interviewed, with the investigation international, as the FBI focuses on trips abroad, including to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far, we have no indication that these killers are function of an organized larger group or grade function of a cell.
THOMAS: But if this couple was truly inspired by ISIS, it marks a dangerous evolution in the U.South. terror threat. The FBI director has been warning for months about ISIS' unprecedented social media campaign, urging potentially thousands of followers hither in the U.S. to attack.
UNIDENTIFIED Male person: It's as if a devil sits on someone'south shoulder all day long saying kill, kill, kill.
THOMAS: An ISIS-inspired set on narrowly averted in May, when ii men armed with assault rifles targeted a Texas cartoon conference about the Prophet Muhammad.
In the terminal two years, the FBI has identified or arrested nearly xc suspected ISIS supporters here at home, average historic period simply 25; at least 20 teenagers, 13 females. Xv of those arrested defendant of trying to launch murderous plots inside the Usa. And at present possibly this couple, who left backside a six-month-old baby to become on a fell killing rampage.
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THOMAS: George, it's not lost on anyone that the U.S. regime got caught off guard and had no warning that a suburban couple had such lethal intentions. The FBI director has warned that the ISIS social media entrada has targeted a young audience of troubled people who are buying in, a lethal new dynamic that we're only starting time to empathise -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we'll hear more on that from the president tonight.
Allow's get more on it at present from Secretary Hillary Clinton, back on THIS Calendar week for the starting time fourth dimension this presidential campaign.
And a reminder for everyone watching, I worked for President Clinton, made charitable contributions in the past to the Clinton Foundation.
Welcome back.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is it fourth dimension to declare war on ISIS?
CLINTON: Expect, we are definitely in conflict with ISIS and I think we need a new update of military authorization. The AUMF, which was passed after the attack on 9/11, should exist brought upwardly to...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Why not declare state of war?
CLINTON: Well, declare war is a very legal term, as you know then well. I think what we want to practise is make sure we have every tool at our disposal to, number one, destroy in that location would-be caliphate in Syrian arab republic and in Ra -- in Iraq.
Number two, do everything we can to dismantle this very effective virtual jihadist network that they are using on the Internet.
And number three, practice whatever is necessary to protect united states of america here at home.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What are you concerned almost in the proclamation of war?
CLINTON: Well, I think that the legal experts say that if we -- there are a lot who say that we already have the authority nosotros need to go after ISIS or any international terrorist network, including al Qaeda and anybody else in the AUMF.
I think it is important, though, for the Congress to vote on behalf of the American people and to make sure that nosotros are updating information technology to take into account the new regime that that risks.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You lot put -- you lot've also been reluctant to say we're fighting radical Islam. And I wonder why not.
Isn't information technology a mistake not to say it plain, that the violence is being pushed by radical elements in that faith?
CLINTON: Well, that's a different thing. Radical elements who use a dangerous and distorted view of Islam to promote their jihadist ambitions, I'm fine with that. I say it all the time and I go later Islamic, too.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Then what'due south the problem with radical Islam?
CLINTON: Well, the trouble is that that sounds similar we are declaring state of war confronting a religion. And that, to me, is, number i, incorrect but...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though the qualifier radical is there?
CLINTON: No, because, look, that -- you know enough nearly religion, you lot've studied it. And there are radicals, people who believe all kinds of things in every religion in the earth.
I don't desire to exercise that because, number one, information technology doesn't exercise justice to the vast numbers of Muslims in our own state and around the world who are peaceful people.
Number two, information technology helps to create this clash of civilizations that is actually a recruiting tool for ISIS and other radical jihadists who use this every bit a way of saying we're in a state of war confronting the West. You must join us. If you are a Muslim, you must join the states.
No. If y'all're a police-abiding, peace-loving Muslim, you need to be with united states against those who are distorting Islam.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Can you say today that nosotros're winning the fight against ISIS?
CLINTON: I could say today that we have a new set of threats. You know, if -- if you get back and expect where nosotros were with al Qaeda in ix/11, there'southward no uncertainty bin Laden and his lieutenants were planning to comport out additional attacks, if they maybe could. And they did in places like Madrid and London, etc.
And then we take dealt with that threat. It doesn't go away. Nosotros haven't eliminated it, but we've dealt with it.
Now, we have to turn our attention to the very sophisticated propagation of this new threat from ISIS.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So we're not winning that battle yet?
CLINTON: Well, we're non winning but it'due south as well before long to say that nosotros are doing everything we need to do. And I've outlined very conspicuously --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- so if you lot --
CLINTON: -- we have to fight them in the air. Nosotros have to fight them on ground and we accept to fight on the Net. And we have to do everything nosotros can with our friends and partners around the world to protect ourselves.
STEPHANOPOULOS: If you were in the Oval Function tonight, would y'all be announcing a new strategy?
CLINTON: Well, I think what -- that's what we'll hear from the president, an intensification of the existing strategy and I recollect there'south some additional steps we have to take.
If yous look at the story about this woman and maybe the man, besides, who got radicalized, self-radicalized, we're going to need help from Facebook and from YouTube and from Twitter. They cannot permit the recruitment and the actual management of attacks or the commemoration of violence past this sophisticated Internet user.
They're going to have to help us take down these announcements and these appeals --
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: -- they go upwards.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about Apple? No more encryption?
CLINTON: This is something I've said for a long time, George. I have to believe that the best minds in the individual sector, in the public sector could come together to help us deal with this evolving threat. And you lot know, I know what the statement is from our friends in the manufacture. I respect that. Nobody wants to exist feeling like their privacy is invaded.
Only I as well know what the argument is on the other side from police force enforcement and security professionals. And then, delight, allow's get together and try to figure out the best manner forward.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Some of your potential rivals on the Republican side say we have to exercise more overseas as well. Ted Cruz says nosotros have to carpet bomb ISIS.
CLINTON: Well, that's an easy matter to say, you lot know. He's never had any responsibility for trying to figure out who the bad guys are and who innocent civilians are. Conspicuously we have to have a much more robust air campaign against ISIS targets, confronting the oil infrastructure, against their leadership. I think you'll hear that from the president. And part of what I accept been arguing for, for quite some time now, is that we've got to exercise a amend chore of getting dorsum the Sunnis on the ground, along with the Kurds, who tin can exist the fighters who will actually take back territory with air cover and with targeted attacks on ISIS infrastructure. We yet are going to accept to have people fighting.
Now I do not believe those should be American gainsay troops --
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STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely not; is that an absolute --
CLINTON: Where I sit down right now, I remember it would brand things worse not better; I practise believe we accept to up our special ops numbers. The fifty that have been authorized need to get there. And so nosotros need to take stock of what else we need. I think the more than iii,000 Americans that we have on the basis in Iraq, who are advising, assisting and enabling the Iraqi military have to be given the flexibility and back up they need.
And I believe strongly we should maybe ask some of our current and retired military officers, who dealt with the Sunni sheiks in Anbar and elsewhere to one time once more reconstitute the fighting force that they put into the fight confronting Al Qaeda in Iraq.
And that was one of my biggest complaints about Maliki, considering what he did was to basically not only destroy the armed services considering of his sectarianism but too he went after those Sunni leaders in Anbar and we know from reporting that some of them are supportive of ISIS, some of the old Ba'ath military officers under Saddam Hussein.
STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, some of your Republican rivals have also criticized you lot for focusing on gun control after the San Bernardino attacks. Marco Rubio points out that France has some of the strictest gun command in the world. That didn't stop the Paris attacks.
California has some of the strictest gun control laws here. Information technology didn't terminate those attacks, either.
So what law would have stopped this?
CLINTON: Well, first of all, what happened in San Bernardino was a terrorist act. Nobody is arguing with that. The law enforcement, FBI take come to that determination. And let's non forget, though, a week before we had an American assault on Planned Parenthood and some weeks before that nosotros had an assault at a community college.
So I don't see these two as in anyway contradictory. We take to up our game against terrorists away and at dwelling house and we have to take account of the fact that our gun laws and the easy access to those guns past people who shouldn't get them, mentally ill people, fugitives, felons and the Congress continuing to pass up to prohibit people on the no-fly list from getting guns, which include a lot of domestic and international terrorists, these are two parts of the same arroyo that I'yard taking to make us safe.
And, yep, the NRA's position always is, you know, if you can't stop everything, why try to end annihilation? That's non the way law works. I mean, we have laws that are going to govern our speed limits on roads, knowing some people are going to violate it or people are going to drive drunk. But we still have laws. We need to have comprehensive background checks. We need to shut the gun show loophole, shut the online loophole, go after what'south call the Charleston loophole and finish the liability for gun sellers.
STEPHANOPOULOS: On this no-fly listing, the critics of that vote say that you know, yous look back at this; it's indiscriminate and they become dorsum x years and say 2,000 people on the watch list actually did buy guns; government hasn't found whatever of them committing a crime with a gun.
CLINTON: Well, again, that's similar proving the negative. Nosotros have a list; if you are on that listing and you believe y'all should not be on that listing, we take a procedure to really raise your objections near beingness on that list.
You get on the list because there is some credible show y'all belong on the listing. At present obviously, that --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Some mistakes sometimes.
CLINTON: -- some mistakes, of class. That's why in that location'south a process for people to exist able to heighten their concerns nearly being on the list and and then to have a procedure that could even atomic number 82 to a legal activity to remove yourself from the listing.
Only I, for 1, am a lot -- I took the shuttle from New York. I'chiliad a lot happier having a list that keeps people off planes that there's any question most their intent or their potential behavior.
And so I'm not -- I can't accept anybody seriously who's going to begin to chip abroad at the no-fly listing.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Donald Trump and yesterday Jerry Falwell Jr. say the answer is for more good people to have guns. Mr. Falwell urged his students at Liberty University to actually arm themselves, get curtained carry permits.
Your response?
CLINTON: Well, he as well went on -- and don't forget he said this, George. He said, that manner, we can take out the Muslims.
He said that, OK?
This is the kind of deplorable, non just hateful response to a legitimate security consequence simply it is giving assistance and condolement to ISIS and other radical jihadists.
With respect to the gun result, it' due south legal to buy guns in America if you are eligible to buy a gun, you lot can go buy a gun and hundreds of thousands of people apparently are in the aftermath of what happened in San Bernardino.
I just want people to understand some of the threats we at present face, whether information technology's the guy in Charleston, who should have never have been given a gun but the universal background check was not fast enough, didn't find the fact he was prohibited, went into the church and killed nine innocent people, we should be able to approach both of these with some sense of, y'all know, unity about how nosotros foreclose terrorist attacks and how we foreclose the wrong people from getting a hold of guns.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We have to have a quick break. Stand past. Much more from Secretary Clinton later. Another alive exclusive, 1 of the men past the taker on from a Florida governor, Jeb Bush.
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JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think you lot're looking at the next Republican nominee. And hither'southward -- and here's what I promised to you, should I win this nomination I will take information technology to Hillary Clinton and I will whoop her.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: Jeb Bush there. Hillary Clinton hither right now.
And as he's hoping, he'south going to come up alive in just a little bit hoping to take you on in the general election if you get the nomination.
I desire to get into some of the issues that may come up in a general ballot. I of the things y'all're seeing Republicans actually take aim at is your spending and investment programs.
HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: On the show correct hither, proposed virtually $1 trillion...
CLINTON: Over ten years.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Over 10 years in spending proposals that a lot of questions on whether you can really pay for it by focusing revenue enhancement increases simply on the top 3 percent. Here'south a Washington Post editorial. They say there is simply no way that the federal government can meet its current fiscal commitments plus the increased demands of an aging population and provide the new forms of middle class relief and business tax relief Mrs. Clinton promises while tapping only the top iii percentage of earners. Your response?
CLINTON: Well, I just respectfully disagree. And that's why I've laid out very specific plans about the kind of investments that I call up Middle Course families particularly need that nosotros have to have to, you know, grow our economy. And I've been very specific about how I will pay for each of those. And that is part of the, you know, underlying principle of presenting the...
(CROSSTALK)
CLINTON: Merely I retrieve it's a little bit amusing that the Republican National Commission would go after me, since all of their candidates and their party philosophy is massive spending cuts and massive tax decreases for those at the very top with no thought to how to pay for it or the trillions of dollars it would add to the national debt, you know.
I practice come up from the Clinton school of economics. And when my husband ended, we had a counterbalanced upkeep and a surplus. Then President Obama inherited the worst financial crunch since the Great Depression. I don't call back he gets the credit he deserves for digging u.s.a. out.
So, we're standing. And now we've got to start moving into the future again. It is going to have adept financial responsibility, that's what I'm promising. Simply I'm also promising that the wealthy are going to showtime paying more of their fair share and help to fund some of the investments that I'm paying for.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They're also saying no tax increases at all anyone earning under $250,000. Is that a rock solid "read my lips" promise?
CLINTON: Well, it certainly is my goal. And I've laid it out in this campaign. And it's something that President Obama promised. It's something my husband certainly tried to attain, because I desire Americans to know that I get it, that a lot of the losses that they experienced because of the great recession are still really pulling them down.
You know, $13 trillion in family wealth was destroyed past the dandy recession. People lost their homes, their 401(k)south and IRAs, their college funds. So, nosotros've got to rebuild the center class. If nosotros expect to have wide based prosperity, that doesn't come from...
STEPHANOPOULOS: And so, it's your goal, but what if yous can't get the revenue in other ways. What if the spending comes in more than information technology is. Will you and then raise taxes?
CLINTON: You know, George, I'1000 going to tell yous what I'm going to do. And I'one thousand going to go on to stick with what I'm going to do. $100 billion a year in these new investments all paid for I call up is a responsible approach to getting our economy creating expert jobs again.
You lot know, I have an infrastructure plan that's on peak of what the congress simply passed.
So, I'm going to become out in that location and I'grand going to defend what I'm doing. And I'm likewise really going to defend the Middle Form, because a lot of these proposals would have a very bad effect. Either it would raise taxes on the Center Grade or it would undermine the kind of growth and structure that nosotros need for the Middle Grade to take off again.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Another challenge y'all could face in this campaign, a majority of Americans question your honesty. Some GOP rivals and family members of the Benghazi victims are saying you lied to them in that hearing.
They point to emails that yous sent the night of the attack, ane to your girl, Chelsea Clinton, maxim -- I'm going to have to put my glasses on here to really read this. "Nosotros were silent...2 of our officers were killed in Benghazi by an al Qaeda-like group." Another one to the Egyptian prime number minister, "we know that the assault in Great socialist people's libyan arab jamahiriya had zip to exercise with the moving-picture show. It was a planned set on, not a protest."
But the family members, as you know, say yous told them it was by a filmmaker, you'd go after the filmmaker. Here'southward what they said.
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UNIDENTIFIED Female person: She lied. She absolutely lied. Her girl was able to be told differently that it was not the video, information technology was something else. Now if her girl could be told, why can't I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Either she was lying to the prime minister, or she was lying to me and to the American public.
(END VIDEO Prune)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Did you lot tell them it was not the film? And what's your response?
CLINTON: No.
You know, look I understand the continuing grief at the loss that parents experienced with the loss of these four brave Americans. And I did testify, every bit you know, for 11 hours. And I answered all of these questions.
At present, I can't -- I can't assistance it the people think in that location has to be something else there. I said very clearly there had been a terrorist group that had taken responsibleness on Facebook between the time that I -- you lot know, when I talked to my daughter, that was the latest information. Nosotros were giving it credibility. And then we learned the next twenty-four hour period it wasn't true. In fact, they retracted information technology.
This was a fast moving series of events in the fog of war. And I retrieve virtually Americans empathise.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about more generally. Do you lot recall there'southward something y'all can do to get a majority of Americans to believe you're trustworthy?
CLINTON: Well, you know, obviously I don't similar hearing that, George. But I think people who have worked with me, people who voted for me twice in New York, people who I've had a very long human relationship with and working on their behalf are going to know what I do and when I say I will do information technology I will motility everything I can to get it washed.
And I believe the American people who are looking for somebody who is a fighter, who will stand up there, just as I did, tell yous what I will do, tell you I will exercise everything to make it happen. And I recollect my values accept been consequent over the years. And the results that I've gotten are ones that I'm going to take to the American public.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Clearing going to be a large issue in this campaign?
In the past, you've said that undocumented immigrants would not exist covered by your health intendance proposals. Here'due south an commutation we had in 2007.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: Would illegal immigrants be covered under your plan?
CLINTON: Illegal immigrants would not exist covered. No. They would non be covered. I will proceed to have a safety net, which I think is in the best traditions of our country and besides for public wellness reasons absolutely necessary.
Simply we did not embrace them in '93, '94 and my program does not cover them now.
(Finish VIDEO Clip)
STEPHANOPOULOS: At present you say that undocumented immigrants should be able to buy into the exchanges. So why the shift?
CLINTON: Well, because number one the kind of program that was passed in the Affordable Intendance Deed gives you a market place-based mode of getting into the insurance market. So, if y'all can afford to buy a policy, you tin can. You don't get, however, any of the subsidies that American citizens get.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Martin O'Malley says they should. Why not?
CLINTON: Well, I disagree with him. I think part of comprehensive immigration reform should be looking at all of these issues. But equally things stand right at present, nether the Affordable Care Act, if y'all have the money and you are undocumented, you lot can purchase into it, but without the subsidies. That's why information technology'due south important we continue to support community health centers, we proceed to support our hospitals because those are often the places that undocumented people and poor people get.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And what's the reason for not going further?
CLINTON: Because I don't think legally y'all can. I mean, that is non something that we tin can legally support. The police force is very clear about that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Donald Trump. Last few days he'south opened upwardly -- you're laughing again.
CLINTON: I'm sorry. I can't assistance information technology.
STEPHANOPOULOS: He's opening up a new line of attack on you. Here it is.
CLINTON: Oh, dear. A new one, huh?
(Begin VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She'll do a couple of minutes in Iowa, pregnant a short period of fourth dimension, and so she goes home and yous don't see her for five, six days, she goes home, she goes to slumber. I'grand telling you. She...
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: She doesn't have the strength, she doesn't take the stamina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Oh, goodness gracious.
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: You know...
STEPHANOPOULOS: I estimate you don't concord.
CLINTON: Well, who tin agree with anything he says that is, you know, subject to one 2nd of fact checking?
Look, if he gets the nomination, I volition be more than happy to campaign against him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is he the one yous want to run against?
CLINTON: I don't actually think nearly information technology that way. I don't have any influence over who they nominate over there and, in fact, he's not the only one saying things that are securely sorry. A lot of the others are kind of Trump ii, you know?
Oh, whatever Trump says, maybe we won't go quite as far, but we'll get as close as we tin can.
So the Republicans, in their presidential nominating process, have a lot to answer for.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How exercise you explicate why he's doing so well?
CLINTON: I don't know, because he'south a -- he'south a reality Television set star. I hateful tens of millions of people have watched him for more a decade on TV and he is part of the celebrity and he will stay whatever he wants to say and if he's held business relationship, that -- it's not true, he just brushes it off and he goes on. And I think that, you know, there's a sure attractiveness to people that here'southward a guy who says exactly what he believes, untrue as it may be, inflammatory equally information technology certainly is.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, you said you're getting ameliorate at learning from your critics. They tell y'all things that your friends won't.
So what have you learned from your critics in this entrada?
CLINTON: You lot know, I've said for a long time, George, that I try -- I try to have criticism seriously but not personally. And past that I mean, wait, if somebody says, hey, you know, you didn't do -- or she didn't practice a adept task answering this or, yous know, I don't remember that that, yous know, adds up, whatever they might say, I will take that seriously.
But I really try not to take information technology personally and I remember that'south a big stardom that y'all have to begin to describe when y'all're in the public loonshit. Yous know, ane of my favorite Americans, Eleanor Roosevelt, said for any woman in the public arena, you have to grow peel as thick as a rhinoceros and, you know, I attempt to put balm on it, but I take...
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: -- I've had to grow a lot of thick skin over the years.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Cheers for joining united states of america today.
CLINTON: Cheers, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we'll be right back with the view from the Republican side. Governor Jeb Bush is here alive.
(COMMERCIAL Suspension)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The threat to America is existent. One man is tested. Jeb is fix to pb.
BUSH: Nosotros are at state of war with radical Islamic terrorism. It is the war of our time. America has had plenty of empty words. President Obama doesn't run across a reason to change course. Hillary Clinton said that her foreign policy would be no more than ambitious or frontward-leaning than his.
(Terminate VIDEO Clip)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Governor Jeb Bush joins the states alive correct now from Florida.
Governor Bush-league, thank you for joining united states this morning.
That'south an ad being run by your super PAC, Right To Ascension, in New Hampshire correct at present. And you did just hear Secretary Clinton. She believes that information technology's non the fourth dimension to declare -- formally declare war on state or radical Islam.
Why practise you remember she'south incorrect?
BUSH: I -- well, await, I remember whether yous -- the semantics of a announcement of war is on the relevant point, the point is that they are at war with usa and we need to have a strategy to not incorporate them, only to destroy them.
And the Congress should be a full partner in that, for sure. But this president hasn't had a strategy. And it is creating a caliphate the size of Indiana. Information technology wins every 24-hour interval that information technology exists. It garners energy from the fact that it exists and controls that kind of territory.
We have to take the lawyers off the state of war fighters' backs and let them go do the task and do it in concert with the neighborhood, Arab leaders, of class...
STEPHANOPOULOS: What does that mean, accept the lawyers off the state of war fighters' backs?
Bush: Well, the president has created directives from the White Firm that -- that creates all sorts of bureaucratic challenges for -- for airstrikes. Up until recently, 75 pct of all the sorties that left the base came back without dropping their ordinances, because there was such a concern about making sure that there were no civilian casualties.
The United States will always adhere to the international standards of war, simply this assistants has imposed fifty-fifty greater challenges.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So would you go as far as Ted Cruz, carpet flop?
Bush: No. No, I -- that's a -- we need a strategy. Carpet bombing is non a strategy. We need to have -- nosotros need to train the Iraqi war machine. We need to garner back up, over again, with the Sunni tribal leaders. I found information technology interesting that Secretary Clinton was talking most re-engaging with the Sunni tribal leaders the surge, which she opposed was a -- was a dandy success, that created a delicate stability in Republic of iraq. And when the Obama administration left Iraq -- she but went there one time -- the void was filled by ISIS.
And so we take to create a total strategy, direct arming the Kurds, which this assistants refuses to do. A no-fly zone in Syria. Creating rubber havens in Syria, a Syria safety haven then that the refugees don't feel compelled to go out. Training and arming a local forcefulness that tin can destroy ISIS equally well equally bring most regime alter.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But Governor Bush, if I can -- if I can interrupt you right there, Secretary Clinton is for a no-fly zone, I believe. She's chosen -- you just heard her call for engaging again with the Sunnis and the Kurds on the footing and for more intense airstrikes.
And so where are you dissimilar from her on strategy...
BUSH: How tin can you...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- going forward?
Bush-league: -- how tin yous trust her if she, in fact, was opposed to the very thing that she'south now supporting and she has said that the president has done a bang-up job as it relates to his efforts in Syria and Iraq.
I just don't believe -- I retrieve she's kind of a focus group person. She merely focuses on what the sentiments are at the time and the cyberspace result is that we don't have a strategy and she'due south non prepared to offer i up.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you have any specific differences with the strategy just outlined today?
BUSH: Yes, I'd -- the kickoff one would be that -- telephone call it for what it is, the idea that this is not radical Islamic terrorism or that there or that somehow there are Buddhist, radical Buddhists, radical Christians. The simple fact is that the Left has a difficult fourth dimension recognizing what this is. This is a fight for Western civilization. They've declared war on the states and we need to be much more serious well-nigh creating a strategy to take them out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Before San Bernardino, yous called Donald Trump'southward idea for monitoring mosques "abhorrent."
Do yous retrieve that has to be rethought correct at present?
BUSH: No, I don't. I think in that location's -- we have all of the capabilities to monitor people that are in our country trying to attack us. I'm not suggesting we -- that already exists and I think that'due south more than than advisable.
The managing director of the FBI has made information technology clear that there are hundreds of cases that they're monitoring. And we should redouble our efforts in that regard. We don't accept to target the religion. We just have to target those that have co-opted the religion and make certain that nosotros're fully aware of the radicalizations taking place, not just here but all around the world.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about this event of the no-fly list? You believe that people on the no-fly list should be able to buy guys?
Bush-league: I mean, Ted Kennedy and Stephen Hayes (ph) the journalist and Cat Stevens, I mean, this is not a list that you tin can be certain of. The first impulse of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is to have gun control. But the start impulse in my mind is permit's have a strategy to have out ISIS in that location then nosotros don't have to deal with it here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is -- the Democratic leader, Harry Reid, pointed out this week that the FBI terrorist suspects now who pledge fidelity to ISIS can still purchase guns in America.
Is that OK with you?
BUSH: I don't call up it is -- information technology's advisable if they oasis't, y'all know, we're tracking them and if the FBI knows that someone'south in our country and they're tracking them, they shouldn't exist able to get guns for sure.
But the no-wing list is a much broader list. It's not an accurate list to be able to utilise for restricting gun rights for police force-abiding citizens.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But and so y'all're saying that if the list were more refined then yous would --
BUSH: Yeah.
Aye. I mean, if you have -- if you're tracking someone who you believe may be a terrorist, of course they shouldn't get guns.
The FBI has that adequacy right now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But right now, according to the law, someone could pledge allegiance to ISIS and that wouldn't necessarily be disqualifying.
BUSH: It should be. And I think it is. I think if the FBI is aware of -- if they're tracking someone, they have the ability to look and see and then notified when someone tries to purchase a gun.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yous also heard Secretary Clinton on the issue spanning, she said it made her express mirth the Republicans were criticizing her that your proposals would increase the debt past far more than.
BUSH: That's incorrect. My proposals, first of all, create far higher growth. The eye class has had a $2,300 reduction in disposable income from the day that Barack Obama was inaugurated. And those policies of more than spending and more taxes and more regulation volition stifle the middle class.
The proposals I've laid out will create higher growth, more income for the eye class and we're restricting the growth of spending in my proposal just past shifting Medicaid back to the states and allowing it to grow in inflation, you lot would save hundreds of billions of dollars over a 10-year flow.
That's the kind of matter that nosotros demand to do. We demand to have power abroad from Washington, shift information technology back to families and back to states and let for 21st century solutions to these issues.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But analysis endorsed fifty-fifty by your own adviser says that your plans would increment the debt by over $1 trillion over the next 10 years.
BUSH: The revenue enhancement reform proposals that would increase income for Americans is what the objective is. Merely we would control spending at a far greater charge per unit than the $one trillion reduction over ten years. It's non their coin, George. This is the coin of the American people. And if we desire to stimulate high growth, we need to make sure the middle class gets a pay increase for the first time in 15 years.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Permit's talk nearly your campaign more generally right now. You're in about 5th place in Iowa, fifth place to been in the public polls. I know your internal polls may be unlike in New Hampshire.
And I want to go back to when you started out this campaign about a twelvemonth agone, when you said how you wanted to run it. You lot said, "I kind of know how a Republican can win, whether information technology's me or somebody else. And it has to be much more uplifting, much more positive, much more willing to be lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles."
Is Donald Trump proving that statement incorrect?
Bush-league: Donald Trump is non going to get the nomination. I have enough confidence in the Republican primary voters in these early on states and beyond. I'll trust them to make that decision.
I know for a fact that a bourgeois is non going to win unless they have a hopeful, optimistic message and later all, our ideology is much more hopeful and optimistic than the progressive Left. And so I'm sticking to my guns on that. It'due south who I am. I demand -- you demand to be accurate when you run.
I believe nosotros're on the verge of the greatest time to exist alive. Just nosotros have to set these really big, complex things that people are securely and correctly frustrated by --
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- it seems like Donald Trump is succeeding right at present, at to the lowest degree, with a darker tone.
Bush: He's succeeding correct now for sure. He's a gifted politician. Only he's not a serious candidate. He'due south not offered anything serious every bit it relates to the fight against terror. He's non offering any proposals as it relates to dealing with these structural challenges nosotros face going forward.
But he'south a gifted politician. He connects with people'southward angst and their anger. But over the long haul, nosotros demand to have productive, constructive ideas to lift people upwards.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You heard Secretary Clinton. She says he's succeeding considering he's a reality TV star.
Bush-league: He's just a gifted pol that is appealing to people's anger and frustration that is quite legitimate. Look, Washington is broken. And the practiced news is that I have a proven record in Tallahassee to disrupt the old order at that place and I can tell that story and I do information technology each and every mean solar day all across the early on chief and conclave states. And information technology's working.
And so I have --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Information technology's working?
Bush: It's working. George, come up on out with me. It'south working. And it's going to show -- it'll bear witness at the time that it matters, which is February 1st in Iowa and New Hampshire across that. We're making proficient, steady progress.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Donald Trump is also making some of your biggest supporters quite aroused. Mike Fernandez, biggest single supporter to your super PAC, is taking out full-page ads right now, where he compares Trump, suggesting that he's -- that he's similar Mussolini and Hitler.
Do yous recall that'due south appropriate?
BUSH: No, I don't. I think that people are going to see that Donald Trump is not a serious candidate, that his message of division is not what we demand. We've had a president that has not been a commander in master; he's been a divider in primary. Our side doesn't demand to mimic that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And your -- Mike Fernandez went on to say that if Trump gets the nomination, he's going to back up Hillary as the lesser of two evils.
You're committed to supporting Donald Trump. I know you lot don't remember he'south going to get it. I know you think you're going to be the nominee. Simply you're committed to supporting Donald Trump if he'due south the Republican nominee?
BUSH: I have pledged to support the Republican nominee. And Donald Trump is not going to be the Republican nominee.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And so walk us through how you get from hither to in that location. I know you lot're coming together with your donors in Miami this week and you say your message is working out there on the stump.
But you've already spent about -- at least the super PAC has already spent about $30 million on television receiver. It hasn't moved the needle and so far.
What is the strategy that gets you to victory going forward?
Bush-league: Out-work, out-organize in these early on states -- information technology'southward exactly what we're doing -- and make progress. At this time in the previous elections, the election wasn't decided. And it won't be decided until we get-go the procedure in February and go to March, where a majority of the states will take their primaries and caucuses.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Can you lot get to March if y'all don't win ane of those first three, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina?
Bush-league: Don't forget Nevada.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Nevada?
BUSH: Yes. I think I tin can. Only I'thousand going to practise well in those.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you going to win?
BUSH: I'thou going to work every bit hard as I tin can and I think that people are going to be drawn to our message that is more hopeful and optimistic and past a messenger that actually can practice the things that he says he wants to exercise.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Y'all've besides suggested out on the stump that you would pick a female person for your vice presidential running mate if you get the nomination.
(CROSSTALK)
Bush-league: Well, I didn't say that -- I didn't say that, but I do -- I do believe that our team has the broadest bench of really talented women that are in part already and the selection for a vice president will be -- will exist an exciting ane for whoever wins the nomination.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Governor Bush, thanks for joining u.s. this morning.
Bush: You bet.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We accept heard from the candidates.
The power -- the Powerhouse Roundtable weighs in on this earth-shaking calendar week right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Boggling scenes this week. Y'all run across the news media at that place live on television, going to the house of those sus -- of those killers in San Bernardino the twenty-four hour period after. A lot of questions about that this week. So many things we have not seen before we did see this week.
Permit's talk virtually that on our roundtable now.
Matthew Dowd, our chief political analyst, is here. Jennifer Granholm, former governor of Michigan, a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton. Georgetown Academy professor and MSNBC political analyst, Michael Eric Dyson. And Alex Castellanos, the chairman of Purple Strategies, founder of NewRepublican.org.
Welcome to all of you.
And, Matt, let me begin with y'all.
You know, we talked almost this after Paris, how much is this going to modify the presidential entrada, San Bernardino, even more?
MATTHEW DOWD, ABC NEWS Contributor: Yes, I call back all of these incidences that nosotros're seeing, I think part of the trouble right at present is the vast majority of the state doesn't feel prophylactic. They don't feel prophylactic worldwide and they don't feel safe domestically.
And the facts don't seem to matter in relation to the policy. It's that sense of fearfulness they have in the course of this.
I think both sides oasis't -- haven't addressed this in the correct fashion. I remember President Obama and the Democrats take skipped right over people'south fears and says nosotros've got the solution, we'll fix this.
And I call up Republicans, and peculiarly in the Republican primary, have only appealed to people'southward fears.
Just I think, in the end, you take to empathise why people are upset, understand why they're safe and then base whatsoever policy we're going to do based upon what the facts are, what's in people's heads as opposed to their fears.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you need to hear from President Obama this night?
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, One-time GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN: Well, I recollect, actually, you know, Secretarial assistant Clinton laid out a fleck of I -- what I expect we'll hear, I hope we'll hear from the president, which is how to control ISIS hither and abroad and on the Internet. She laid out a comprehensive strategy. My estimate is he'll be doing something like this.
But to your point, I mean the -- the Democrats are laying out specifics. She asked for Congress to reauthorize mili -- the utilize of military forcefulness and to update is so that they tin attack.
But why haven't they done that?
The president has chosen for them to do it.
Why hasn't Congress given the president the tools to be able to attack ISIS?
ALEX CASTELLANOS, CHAIRMAN, PURPLE STRATEGIES, FOUNDER, NEWREPUBLICAN.ORG: The president is going to throw more than words at our bug and I think that is the business organization that a lot of Americans have, that somehow he has grown distant from this state. He doesn't share our fears. He's go that cool, aloof Obama and we see the Democratic Party talking about terrorism. Well, let's pass some gun control laws and it's actually caused past global warming.
And that distances that party from the fear that Americans accept, and it is a big fright. It's non just about terrorism, it is that the -- the seams of the entire planet seem to be coming apart.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there an empathy gap on this consequence of fearfulness?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, GEORGETOWN University PROFESSOR, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Not with President Obama. I mean because what we're missing here is that while all that stuff is going on, Laquan McDonald was going on, as well, so that -- and what happened in Colorado. The domestic terrorism.
But fifty-fifty when nosotros disaggregate the data on the domestic side, when you've got police who are representatives of the state engaging our citizens, especially citizens of color, at that place is an incredible sense of fright.
So that joins in means that we don't oftentimes speak about, our concerns well-nigh international and global terrorism, which are existent, forth with the kind of domestic expression.
So Obama is not distant from that. He has to rest the concerns of security and fright.
He's got to also talk about the degree to which, y'all know, throwing the traditional Republican allow's just flop the hell out of them, that will non work when you lot've got...
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: -- the Internet being (INAUDIBLE).
STEPHANOPOULOS: But -- merely, Matthew Dowd, one of the things that Donald Trump points out is that the more he does that, the amend he does.
DOWD: Well, I think Donald Trump, right at present, in today'southward day and historic period, if y'all take a look at all the polls and everything you await at, the dominant characteristic that sets apart the winners on each side right now, Hillary Clinton on the Democratic side and Donald Trump on the Republican side, is who is the strongest candidate?
Right at present, people want the strongest candidate. Even if strong is wrong, they'll pick that over (INAUDIBLE)...
GRANHOLM: Except for that what he is doing is stoking fears. I mean there is fright out there, but he is...
DOWD: I (INAUDIBLE)...
GRANHOLM: -- breathing oxygen...
(CROSSTALK)
DOWD: But he does...
GRANHOLM: -- like a dragon into that.
DOWD: -- only he does correspond a cracking fright out there.
GRANHOLM: He represents it, just and so he uses that fear to divide the country by groups and he uses it to create language that actually...
DYSON: Well, there was a bang-up president...
GRANHOLM: -- empowers our enemies.
DYSON: -- there was a dandy president who once said nosotros have zilch to fright but fear itself, and then that stoking those fears may boost you upwardly in the polls but it doesn't convalesce the pressures and the realities of terror that created...
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: -- in the first place.
CASTELLANOS: Only at that place'southward a sense in the country that Washington's elite and the news media are all making themselves feel better and superior by hell, we don't take to respond to beast barbaric evil...
GRANHOLM: But no 1 is proverb that, Alex.
CASTELLANOS: -- and with forcefulness...
GRANHOLM: Nobody is proverb that.
CASTELLANOS: -- because they don't sympathize that...
GRANHOLM: I totally disagree...
CASTELLANOS: -- no, but that'southward the message that I think America is hearing, that Washington has grown afar -- hey, we have this, yous little...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do -- do you agree...
CASTELLANOS: -- and you sit down and we've got it nether control.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Practise you lot concord with Jeb Bush that Donald Trump cannot be the nominee?
CASTELLANOS: No. No, I don't. I think it's entirely possible that Donald Trump is the nominee.
DOWD: Practice you call up it's likely?
CASTELLANOS: No. I...
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: -- do think there's something improve coming out of all of this. Only no, I think it's possible Ted Cruz wins Iowa, we go to New Hampshire to validate an culling. The field is crowded. And a crowded field, by definition, is going to have longer to reduce. And yous can encounter that Cruz-Trump dynamic...
DOWD: George, the amazing thing...
CASTELLANOS: -- Trump may become the institution candidate.
DOWD: -- the amazing matter virtually the dynamics today is that -- that both candidates on each side are leading in the polls on each side, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, who are the most disliked, distrusted politicians today, asunder, in their view, voters' minds from the average values and the most polarizing people in America today are Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, are the most pol -- and they're leading their party'south nomination.
If that's presented to the American public, there is going to be a -- a -- a response to that that our system no longer works in the way...
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: By the way, Hillary Clinton is the candidate of strength?
GRANHOLM: Yes.
CASTELLANOS: Just on the Democratic side, also, just like Donald Trump is.
DOWD: Aye.
GRANHOLM: Donald Trump is going to win -- if the CNN poll this week is to be believed, Donald Trump is going to win the nomination. So get ready for it...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...
GRANHOLM: And unless -- unless -- look a second.
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: Unless two things happen. 1 is the non-Trump candidates consolidate a basis -- around one person.
And, two, they showtime taking him down. And information technology tin't simply exist Chris Christie'southward super PAC or Don -- or, you know, Kasich's super PAC.
DOWD: And ultimately...
GRANHOLM: They have got to...
DOWD: -- their solution is not to take Donald Trump down. I think that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: I know. And and then therefore, they are...
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: -- going to allow him to win.
DYSON: When we talk about a war between civilizations, let's talk almost a state of war within this country, a kind of internal civil war, where Donald Trump appears to xenophobic passions...
GRANHOLM: Yeah.
DYSON: -- racist and biased against all others who are not role of the narrow white mainstream...
DOWD: That's...
DYSON: -- versus...
DOWD: -- that's...
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: -- a party that is...
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: -- a very real fearfulness.
DYSON: -- versus a party that is serious well-nigh diversity and the complex arrangement of dissimilar constituencies working together. Either you believe in America as a possibility your you don't.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Alex, what nigh this -- this prospect that Hillary Clinton and some of her supporters raised, that by creating this bidding war, to exist the accented strongest on the Republican side, the Republicans are guaranteeing a Goldwater style election in 2016?
CASTELLANOS: I remember if we end upwards getting someone like a Ted Cruz, that would exist true.
Simply let me offer y'all an alternative here, Marco Rubio needs to be tested. Barack Obama was tested past Reverend Wright, by an economic meltdown. And we saw him abound and mature. And he became president considering he was tested.
Imagine what happens if a Marco Rubio -- he needs to exist attacked by Jeb Bush. He needs to be attacked by somebody. He needs to stand in forepart of a nuclear blast and he will either melt down or gain super power.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Matthew, we were talking about...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: You think if he does that, he becomes super formidable candidate.
DOWD: I recollect Marco Rubio -- if Marco Rubio goes through this process and becomes the Republican nominee he beats Hillary Clinton, it's non going to even be that shut in my listen in the class of this, considering the American public right at present wants a change from the electric current administration and believes we're off on the wrong track.
The question right now is we go along talking well-nigh Donald Trump and he'south this and what he'south this. He simply is behind Hillary Clinton by three percentage points in a general election. I'1000 not maxim Donald Trump would win a general election, but the fact his demonstration of what he'southward doing demonstrates the weakness also on the Democratic side in the course of this election.
Hillary Clinton is not a boss candidate that'due south going to walk away with this election...
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: ...thinks she is the strongest. That's all voters. I mean, she is a dominate candidate.
DOWD: ...voters don't trust her.
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: And how many don't trust Donald Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: The Republican side has said for the last 2 elections that the American people stand up confronting. And the American people voted Barack Obama into office.
Conspicuously, that kind of polling doesn't really begin to go to the internal mechanism and fear and hatred...
(CROSSTALK)
DOWD: Which party today represents more people in the country today? Which party holds the congress, holds the Senate, holds 30 governors...
(CROSSTALK)
DOWD: The only matter the Democrats correct now accept in their bailiwick is to win the presidency. If they were to lose the presidency...
(CROSSTALK)
DYSON: You lot know what, when y'all get the big guys, the other things matter, just they don't matter as much.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That'due south all we have time for today. That was a cracking conversation everyone. And we'll be correct back after this from our ABC stations.
(COMMERCIAL Suspension)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And now we honor our boyfriend Americans who serve and sacrifice.
In the month of Nov, one service member died overseas in Iraq.
And before we go, a moment to call up Bob Clark. Long before this week began, Clark hosted our Dominicus morning broadcast issues and answers. He was one of the first Washington correspondents hired by ABC News in Dallas the day President Kennedy was shot, covered congress for years. Bob Clark died at 93.
That is all for the states today. Thanks for sharing part of your Dominicus with us. Melody in tonight at 8:00 Eastern for our alive coverage of President Obama'southward Oval Function address. And I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.
Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-hillary-clinton-jeb-bush/story?id=35596885
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